ALT Chats with Kaushik Mohan and Brendan Kirbach


October 28, 2022

[00:00:24.250] - Brendan Kirbach

Hey, guys! How's it going here? We're just waiting for Shik to come in here and then we'll hop on and start the Live. Are you guys watching the Thursday Night game right now? Who do you guys think's going to win the game? Send some comments and let's see how it's going.


[00:00:51.510] - Brendan Kirbach

Right here, what we're going to do first, just when we have everyone is we're going to do a giveaway. If you just screenshot this post and tag our ALT account, @altxyzofficial, then and repost it to your story, you'll be entered to win a chance at $50 ALT credit.


[00:01:15.940] - Brendan Kirbach

Let's see, we're trying to get in from Shik. Just give him another minute. One second here. Who are you guys' favorites team so far in the NBA? You guys been impressed with anyone so far? I know for me, I'm a huge Warrior fan. I'm from the Bay Area, so I love watching Steph and Klay play. Those guys are so fun. Tough loss the other day from the Suns, but we'll make it through.


[00:02:17.340] - Brendan Kirbach

We'll give Shik another minute here so, and then we'll get started. It's nice to see some familiar faces in here from you guys. Yeah, Shik does love Bronson. He's also a huge LeBron fan. He just moved to LA, actually. So he's going to try and watch a couple of games of LeBron and go play.


[00:02:47.120] - Brendan Kirbach

I'll just start it right here for now, and then when Shik hops in, we can get going. As I mentioned, there's going to be an ALT giveaway, a $50 ALT credit. Once you screenshot this page and come on and tag us in the video, then we can… Here he is right here. What's up, Shik?


[00:03:20.540] - Kaushik Mohan

How's it going?


[00:03:21.820] - Brendan Kirbach

Good. I just told everyone about the giveaway. So if you repost and tag a screenshot and repost this to your story and tag @altxyzofficial, you'll have a chance to win $50 ALT credit that you can use on the next auction or in the Exchange or whatever you want to do. Shipping card, whatever you want to do there. But I figure we can just get started.


[00:03:45.340] - Brendan Kirbach

I just told them my name is Brendan. I've been on here a couple of times before, but if you guys don't know me, I'm one of the card experts here and on the sourcing team. So I buy and sell trade cards all the time. And I work with Shik pretty often. He's one of our expert pricers as well and runs the modeling team for ALT Value. So it's nice to have him join me.


[00:04:12.750] - Kaushik Mohan

Like Brendan stated, my name is Kaushik Mohan. I go with @the_iron_shik on Instagram, and I'm excited to talk about what's upcoming in the Liquid Auctions. But before we get there, I want to let you all know that Matt Levine, aka the National Treasure, is actually on site in Nashville. So if you're going to the Nashville show, feel free to stop and say hi, he'll be taking cards in for consignment, taking cards in for vaulting. Feel free to please stop by and say hi and ask any questions you might think could be important.


[00:04:50.010] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, absolutely. Also Chris Jackson, who some of you guys know, will also be there. So go say hi to them. They're good guys. And you can talk some cards with them. They'll also be in Dallas as well the following week. So if you guys are going to Dallas, you can find them there as well.


[00:05:08.810] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah. And Chris is local to Nashville, so that's like his backyard.


[00:05:14.690] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah. So just want to jump into it. Shik, we have some pretty cool cards this auction. One of the favorites so far and most iconic card, I think, is the Jordan Fleer PSA 10. You want to talk a little bit about that one?


[00:05:30.320] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah. Guys, this is the first Jordan Fleer PSA 10 we've ever run on ALT Liquid Auctions. We've been now over a year in Liquid Auctions. This is the first time it's getting auctioned off. The card went through a lot of different price points. It was under 100K for a very long time, got all the way up to three quarters of a million dollars and then now it is starting to settle back down.


[00:05:59.920] - Kaushik Mohan

With this card, I think it's really important to note for everyone that not all 10s are equal, and I can't stress that enough. There are some PSA 10 Jordan Fleers that were better than the other and they should be bought for more prices. Just like how vintage baseball is, not all prices are equal for that grade. Same thing should go along with this. I expect this card to end anywhere between like 165 to potentially $200,000. It's going to be somewhere in that range. It's pretty steady eddy and has about, I think, over 300 in its pop.


[00:06:38.980] - Brendan Kirbach

That's a good call for sure. Some of them have better color, just bolder, stronger than others. So this one will be a fun one to watch as well. I'm excited to run our first Jordan Fleer card on ALT Auctions. It's a heavy basketball one for us. We're also running the Kobe Bryant Credentials BGS 9.5. I expect that one to do pretty well as well. That one I expect to probably end the 160-ish range to 180 range. I think Kobe's an iconic player. I think he's been getting slept on for a while.


[00:07:16.650] - Brendan Kirbach

The vintage market is interesting, too. Those guys aren't playing anymore. So I feel like though, their value… Especially in today's market, you see like Matt Jones slipping, you see like Zach Wilson slipping, you see all these guys going down. But Kobe already cemented his legacy. Jordan already cemented his legacy. Those guys can't necessarily go down too much more, in my opinion. They've already earned their stripes. So I actually think vintage is a safe play right now.


[00:07:47.150] - Kaushik Mohan

Man, you're making me feel old to think that 1996 card is considered vintage now, but I will tell you this. I was not collecting in 1996. I was not into sports cards then. I was into Pokemon. Long story short, though, I got a chance to see a few of these at the Dallas show during COVID. That's some of the times when I really started going into '90s cards a little bit more.


[00:08:17.130] - Kaushik Mohan

What's so unique about this card is it's a see through acetate. It's the first year that they ever made Skybox Credentials. Obviously, it all coincides with his rookie year. It went on for about seven, eight years. But it's a see through acetate, and then if you go around the border, there's a silver border. And if you ever hold one of these cards, Credentials made or Skybox made this card to be: this is the card of the future. That was the thing that they were wanting to embody. Obviously, I know it's out of 499, but there's not that many that are in the 9.5. I think I'll pull it up right here on ALT. I think it's very few.


[00:08:59.930] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah, there is only nine 9.5s in existence and only four PSA 10s. I've seen quite a few run on a PSA 9 or BGS 9, but a 9.5, really hard to find. Potentially, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the only 9.5 you'll see all year.


[00:09:19.830] - Brendan Kirbach

Especially in today's age, we talk about grail cards and sometimes we see the same cards getting run often on different auction houses, whether it's us, Goldin, PWCC. So this is a cool one that I think is unique because you don't see this every day. This is one of those actual real "grails" that doesn't pop up very often.


[00:09:40.580] - Kaushik Mohan

It's right at a little over one year ago that a 9.5 was ever run. So this card hasn't been sold publicly all year. And so I feel like in the way that auctions are going and how people are getting fatigued with seeing the same card, this might be one of those where you might not see this again until mid to late next year or not until maybe 2024.


[00:10:10.990] - Brendan Kirbach

Exactly. Especially with such a low popcount, there's only so many that can be run so often. This is one of them. So if you want this card, this is now your chance to get it while you have a chance.


[00:10:23.290] - Brendan Kirbach

Then I think lastly, just continuing on the basketball and the GOAT themes, because we have the LeBron/Michael Jordan Authentics Dual Autograph Patch. I know Shik is a big LeBron fan so he can probably talk more about this card. I was just telling them before you hopped in that you actually moved to LA, so you're going to be in the area and try and catch a few games this season too, right?


[00:10:46.510] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah, I'm officially now in SoCal. Orange County to be particular. But I'm sure I'll see a lot of collectors nearby. I, unfortunately, did not see that. I think a lot of my friends were all spread out all throughout the country for sports cards, but I seem to have a lot that were naturally from California. So hopefully I can make a lot of newer contacts while I'm here. Maybe you can hit me up when I go to Burbank next.


[00:11:16.150] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:11:16]


[00:11:18.990] - Kaushik Mohan

Go ahead.


[00:11:18.990] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, especially with the West Coast, LeBron guys. That should be a fun one to monitor as well. And you know what? I think these are, as Shik was saying, these are a big deal because they don't pop up as often. They're these "grail" cards that collectors really seek. So if you want a chance to come grab them now, now you have it now. In terms of more modern players right now, we want to talk about some market trends right now. [crosstalk 00:11:50]


[00:11:50.370] - Kaushik Mohan

Can I give a quick thing about this Jordan/LeBron before we move on?


[00:11:54.890] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, go for it.


[00:11:57.570] - Kaushik Mohan

You guys have been seeing on Instagram. There's an account called @cardchannel. I am not personal friends with them; we just talk from time to time. But I really like what he's doing. He actually is going deep into the data, which I think you all know on this channel, we are really into the data at ALT. He is going in and he is reviewing patch quality for these big cards.


[00:12:22.270] - Kaushik Mohan

He has gone in and reviewed like Jordan/LeBron, how many dual autos there are, how many dual auto jerseys are, how many dual auto patches there are. What's interesting about this card is this is a PSA 10. And if you haven't heard already—you should know this by now—vertical cards sell for more than horizontal cards. It's just I think the way eye appeal is working.


[00:12:49.280] - Kaushik Mohan

So this card has sold in multiple grades all over the place. But this is the first time in a long time a PSA 10 is available, so I expect it to do great numbers because of that rarity. And it is a game used jersey. That's so important. That it's not a patch, it's a jersey, but it's a game used of both players on card autos.


[00:13:09.630] - Kaushik Mohan

I really think if you are… I'm very big of a stickler for game used jerseys on cards, on card autos. If you have that and then… I won't speak to Brendan because I know he's a Golden State guy. But I think LeBron and Jordan are one and two, Jordan being one. I'm being realistic. So for me, I wish I could go after this card, but it's going to be too expensive for me. It's already got a bid. It's at $30,000. It's got a bid.


[00:13:40.230] - Brendan Kirbach

That's pretty cool. As much as I love my Golden State Warriors, I think Curry could maybe… I think Curry will go down as the greatest shooter of all time. I don't think that's necessarily up for debate. But in terms of just overall players, Curry's got a way to go until… He's got a way to go until he becomes that GOAT status.


[00:14:02.480] - Kaushik Mohan

We have a Chrome Refractor in this auction, a 9.5. It's a Quad Gem. But I think this last championship, he got pushed into my top 10 all time from this last championship. And I think who knows, Brendan? You're getting spoiled up there. He could win another one for you.


[00:14:24.730] - Brendan Kirbach

I think the knock on him last year and the years before was that he got "curried" and he'd never won the Finals MVP before. It was always Durant, then one year it was Iguodala. That was the haters' knock on him. But now he finally got that. So he got the monkey off his back.


[00:14:45.310] - Brendan Kirbach

They didn't look that great against the Suns this past week. But it's still early in the regular season and when it comes down to it in the playoffs, they perform.


[00:14:56.120] - Kaushik Mohan

I want to just share my screen, Brendan. I know where you wanted to talk about baseball. Feel free to talk about Bryce Harper. I want to talk about this card. I am not a baseball collector, but I see this card, I'm like, "If I was going to collect baseball, this would be where I would like to start." Right here. This is the card. It's a 2017 Topps Dynasty Dual. It's in our auction now. It's at $1,900. It's Derek Jeter/Ichiro PSA 10, to 1/1.


[00:15:27.270] - Kaushik Mohan

The only thing that could have made this a little bit nicer is maybe if they switched to Ichiro patch with the Jeter. Because when you think Jeter, you think Yankees, you think captain, you want that logo. But this is pretty nice. I don't know, there's got to be some baseball collectors out there that will want this card if my screen [crosstalk 00:15:49]. There you go.


[00:15:50.500] - Brendan Kirbach

Absolutely. It's one of those iconic cards. Sometimes we talk about the word card, like you're a buzzcard, like this is like a "grail", for instance. This would be one of those cards that I would consider myself to go after if I was a big baseball collector. It is interesting, though, that the teams in the World Series right now, Houston versus Philadelphia, those two teams are actually playing against each other next week on Thursday Night Football. So it'll be a really big sports weekend for Houston versus Philly.


[00:16:21.600] - Kaushik Mohan

Well, you know what? We talk about when to buy things. I think now, it's probably the best time to get your baseball buying started. We're still three months away, at least, until spring training gets talked about. But I'm sure people have started buying last month a little bit, this month a little bit more. I can totally foresee going into November, people will be mass buying baseball cards.


[00:16:50.080] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, absolutely. I know one person that I'm looking to buy this off season is Ohtani. He just has a massive market. I know his prices will probably come down a little bit just because they're not playing right now. So now is probably the time—in the next month or so—is probably the time to start buying baseball. Especially all these prospects as well that are going to be up and coming, making some noise in the spring training.


[00:17:15.720] - Brendan Kirbach

So guys that were September call ups, go get their Gold Refractors right now while they're cheap. So you can find the next Soto or you can find the next Trout. They're just there out there. You just got to find them.


[00:17:32.250] - Kaushik Mohan

Bernie is saying my Tatis and Soto thank me later. I do want to tell you one thing, and this is… I'm a learner. If I'm not buying baseball, I'm still paying attention to it. I know all the main sets. I know most of the main prices on all the main guys. But when I look at the amount of basketball that has come through in the last three or four years—and I'm a big believer that we are unfortunately potentially could be in the junk slab era—I'm always shocked at how much autographs the baseball players are willing to do.


[00:18:09.110] - Kaushik Mohan

And so I wonder—and I don't know this, but maybe we can bring somebody on that's more of a raffer or something like that—but I wonder if the dynamic is baseball players know that it's part of their culture to sign autographs on these things, and they really believe in that from the decade that they have had this. So I look at the sheer volume of all the Bowman Chromes, the prospect, autos, all of that. I'm sitting there thinking, "Man, maybe they really like this part of the whole thing."


[00:18:41.850] - Brendan Kirbach

It's also cool to see someone of GOAT status is like Mike Trout, who was such an avid collector himself. I think that brings great news to the hobby. Any time there's someone of his status or caliber that is a huge card nut, that definitely helps as well.


[00:18:58.440] - Brendan Kirbach

We see it all the time. Like Marlon Humphrey in the NFL is a big collector. There's all these athletes, too, that are big time collectors. I know a line backer on the Raiders, Blake Martinez, last couple weeks, he bought a million dollar Pokemon card. So it's cool to see these guys in the spotlight and buying such cool cards and promoting the hobby.


[00:19:22.660] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah. And Phillies were not supposed to get there. I don't think they were the favorites, but they're there-


[00:19:29.980] - Brendan Kirbach

It's crazy. They actually fired their head. They fired their coach, Joe Girardi, midway through the season because they were doing so poorly. So this is an interim coach right now who's made the World Series.


[00:19:42.570] - Kaushik Mohan

It's interesting to see what Bryce Harper's cards are probably now worth. They've probably jumped like crazy. When he was in the Nationals, he had a rise, then he had a lull, and then now it's back. I will say this. Watch out card community, this is going to be the first year I am going to do prospecting in baseball. Never done it before.


[00:20:05.640] - Kaushik Mohan

But I think what I'm learning and what I seem to like about the prospecting for football and baseball is you can see their cards for years; and in basketball, you don't get it until after the rookie season's over. You don't get the Flawless, the NTRPAs, all that stuff. So I'm excited to take a small portion of my collection and just be like, "I want to prospect, I want to have fun. I want to see how the price will move, the movement, the excitement."


[00:20:35.840] - Kaushik Mohan

And Brendan, I don't know about you, but a lot of times, if the card goes from like $400-$900, I'm way more excited than a car going from $10,000-$12,000 dollars.


[00:20:46.470] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, it's cool, especially with these prospects. You see them at such a young age because there's a minor league system. So you can see and track their development, whereas like in the NFL, they just go straight to the pros and they're just thrown straight into the fire.


[00:21:02.470] - Brendan Kirbach

If you find prospects that you see in double A or single A, and they work their way up to like high double A or high triple A, and then end up getting that call to the Major Leagues, you feel a little nostalgic and sentimental and a joy because you've followed them. Like as you said, even if it's like a $500 jump, $400-$900, I do feel the same way. I think that's cooler to me than an NTRPA football card jumping up a couple thousand dollars.


[00:21:35.180] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah. The other thing that I like about it is everyone has so many opinions. Let's take a look at this rookie class, this basketball rookie class, if we start saying Banchero, Ivey, and Mathurin, then maybe there might be five more names, tops, that somebody might bring into the conversation. But in baseball, I feel, and even football, you know this for the quarterback system, there are so many names. I think that parity also drives those markets.


[00:22:06.160] - Brendan Kirbach

Yeah, absolutely. I know we're running out of time here, so just wanted to reiterate here, we are doing a giveaway. If you screenshot this and post it to your story and tag our account, then you're entered into a chance to win $50 ALT credit.


[00:22:23.230] - Brendan Kirbach

And I feel like the last thing I want to say here before we hop off is something big on ALT this week is that we don't require deposits anymore to offer on fixed exchange. A lot of the times people would say, "Hey, I don't want to tie up $7,000 to offer on a card and it not be accepted." Now you can offer $7,000, and if it gets accepted, then you can initiate a deposit. So I think that'll end up being a really good thing for us at ALT and will make collectors happy as well.


[00:22:53.520] - Kaushik Mohan

Agreed. And then this will just allow you if the offer is accepted, what ends up happening is the buyer has two days to initiate payment and if they initiate payment in that time, then the transaction is going to be complete once the money is on the account. If they don't initiate payment within the first two days, then the card goes back and the list gets listed on the Exchange.


[00:23:16.800] - Kaushik Mohan

So we want to make sure it's a more honor system. We want to make sure that people pay on time when you have a card sold so that we can make sure that the comp is actually good for people to use down the road.


[00:23:29.630] - Kaushik Mohan

And I just want to leave you guys with a couple of things here. I'm starting to see—and I know Bernie's is not going to like this because I'm going to talk about basketball—but I'm starting to see Giannis prices soar, and he's killing it in the games right now. And then there's only one other card I wanted to showcase, and it's quite unique. I'm not a big fan of both of these players, but I think given what they've accomplished, it's good. I just wanted to show this one last card off and then I wanted to see what you thought, Brendan. This is a 1/1 Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokić. [crosstalk 00:24:06]


[00:24:06.730] - Brendan Kirbach

Oh, yeah, I saw this one. This is a really cool card. It's cool, too, because a lot of the times on these dual cards, it's like one player may be really good and then the other player's like meh. But these are two top players. Jokić is back to back MVP and Murray is fantastic. He didn't play last year because he was injured and tore the ACL, but he's really stepped up and he's been playing really well the first start of the season. So I think this could be end up being a card that which could go over, actually, the ALT value.


[00:24:39.900] - Kaushik Mohan

Yeah, agreed. And if Chris Hodge is still on this call, I saw him there a little bit ago. He's the biggest Jokić fan. So I'll probably be sending him this link right after this Live to see if he wants to go bid on this card. But essentially, I'm excited to see what the Jordan Fleer does and the Kobe Credentials does, but we're getting into the part of the season where it's midway and everyone's getting ready for baseball and maybe some football playoff line.


[00:25:07.860] - Brendan Kirbach

Absolutely. Thanks again for hosting with me. This was fun. I hope you guys got some good knowledge within the industry. And if you ever have questions, feel free to shoot us DMs. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next Thursday.